Basically, DOJ/DHS doesn't want Mr Abrego Garcià returned under any circumstance, as that opens the door to hundreds of more potentially successful challenges, killing the whole "black site" rendition program, a line drawn firmly by tRump, and unlikely to be crossed, IMHO.
Regrettably, Mr Abrego Garcià is toast, along with the other 200+ Venezuelans disappeared to CECOT.
Also from your TPM reporting, this nugget from someone at DHS:
"One DHS official said in a declaration filing immediately before today’s hearing that DHS would detain Abrego Garcia if he appeared at a U.S. port of entry and then deport him to a third country or move to cancel the withholding of deportation order, and then remove him to El Salvador."
Shorter version: IF he gets out of CECOT, he ain't coming back here.
How about a judicial policy of jailing attorneys for contempt of court when they are non-responsive to the judges' orders? Then report the jailed attorneys to the state Bar Associations. This will increase the collateral damage on the Administration side, and perhaps get some internal pushback. Obviously, it will also get ferocious pushback from the Administration, and perhaps precipitate a constitutional crisis, but I don't think avoiding that is an option any more.
The attorneys. The clients deserve it, but trying to accomplish that would cause a much larger conflict, but throwing the attorneys in jail until they comply would inflict pain and publicity, both of which throw sand in the gears. We're trying to deter bullies.
I worry a lot about the growing inclination on all sides to lock their opponents up. This started in the 2016 presidential campaign with Trump calling for Hillary to be locked up and has metastasized since then. Now MAGAs and progressives alike are calling for each other to be jailed. This is a totally dysfunctional reaction to political or cultural opposition. It bodes ill for us
Which progressives are calling for criminal prosecution of MAGAs for purely political acts? We have witnessed blatant violations of security laws and procedures by members of this Administration that make anything Hillary Clinton was accused (and repeatedly exonerated) miniscule in comparison - yet I've yet to see Bernie and AOC and the gang leading crowds in "Lock them up!" chants. I fail to see any equivalence other than the unsupported assertion that "Both sides do it". Maybe I access the wrong media - why not enlighten us and support your assertion.
Actually I dont. I have a sub on TPM and that's it. I dont do Substack or BlueSky. Shouldn't make assumptions like that about others in place of defending your position.
I also wouldn't equate comments made by private citizens on social media with public statements made by publicly elected officials to say "Both sides do it" - apples and oranges - but If that is your answer, then I guess you have answered the question. Thank you for taking the time.
No problem. Your subscription to TPM Is not via Substack?? How then are we conversing now? I don't need or bother to defend my positions -others may disagree or agree as they like and that's the joy and freedom of Substack and Bluesky, the last bastions of liberal/progressive thought in social media. I love this place and I hope you find a happy home. I also note you have more Substack presence than you mentioned- your own newsletter recently started? Build it up more and I may subscribe. Nice conversation.
As much as we want Kilmar Abrego Garcia freed, don't forget there are 260+ others jailed in El Salvador without due process. The abduction of people kidnapped off the street and imprisoned in a foreign land means the end of rights guaranteed since 1215 (i.e., the Magna Carta) and the 4th, 8th and 14th Amendments in our Constitution. The writ of habeas corpus, which allows individuals to challenge the legality of their detention, has a long history tied to the Magna Carta. The 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures, while the 14th Due Process Clause ensures a person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. As if those violations of the Constitution were not enough, the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment prohibits such action inflicted by the government This amendment aims to protect individuals like Kilmar Garcia--and all other residents of the US, to be protected by the Constitution, from punishment that is excessively harsh or inhumane. Trump has destroyed the Constitution and the Magna Carta in 84 days, with the help of cowed, cowardlyRepublicans in Congress and the SCOTUS. Shades of Nazi Germany 1930s! But we are NOT Germany of the period 1933-1845. We know history. Fight back, demonstrate, protest with signs or just stand in solidarity, write letters to the editor or internet columnists, call your congressperson or senator. Donate to Dem candidates, vote. Never give up. As Joyce Vance says: "We're in this together." Solidarity. Trump et al is not what America is about or its democracy!
Thank you for the soul curdling efforts to inform. IMHO, the faster we get "clarity" from SCOTUS the faster we can prepare and implement.
Thanks for this full reporting, David. Great work.
Thanks for these helpful updates!
Basically, DOJ/DHS doesn't want Mr Abrego Garcià returned under any circumstance, as that opens the door to hundreds of more potentially successful challenges, killing the whole "black site" rendition program, a line drawn firmly by tRump, and unlikely to be crossed, IMHO.
Regrettably, Mr Abrego Garcià is toast, along with the other 200+ Venezuelans disappeared to CECOT.
Also from your TPM reporting, this nugget from someone at DHS:
"One DHS official said in a declaration filing immediately before today’s hearing that DHS would detain Abrego Garcia if he appeared at a U.S. port of entry and then deport him to a third country or move to cancel the withholding of deportation order, and then remove him to El Salvador."
Shorter version: IF he gets out of CECOT, he ain't coming back here.
"WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH VENEZUELA"
How about a judicial policy of jailing attorneys for contempt of court when they are non-responsive to the judges' orders? Then report the jailed attorneys to the state Bar Associations. This will increase the collateral damage on the Administration side, and perhaps get some internal pushback. Obviously, it will also get ferocious pushback from the Administration, and perhaps precipitate a constitutional crisis, but I don't think avoiding that is an option any more.
An excellent idea but would the contempt of court be on the attorneys or their clients or both?
The attorneys. The clients deserve it, but trying to accomplish that would cause a much larger conflict, but throwing the attorneys in jail until they comply would inflict pain and publicity, both of which throw sand in the gears. We're trying to deter bullies.
Are we players in Dr. Strangelove now?
Why don't we quit nit
picking each other over
who's right/wrong, who
said this/that. This is
2025 and our country's
in a terrible situation.
We should be coming
together, forming a
strong front to change
what's happening. We've
done it before. We can
do it again.
I worry a lot about the growing inclination on all sides to lock their opponents up. This started in the 2016 presidential campaign with Trump calling for Hillary to be locked up and has metastasized since then. Now MAGAs and progressives alike are calling for each other to be jailed. This is a totally dysfunctional reaction to political or cultural opposition. It bodes ill for us
Which progressives are calling for criminal prosecution of MAGAs for purely political acts? We have witnessed blatant violations of security laws and procedures by members of this Administration that make anything Hillary Clinton was accused (and repeatedly exonerated) miniscule in comparison - yet I've yet to see Bernie and AOC and the gang leading crowds in "Lock them up!" chants. I fail to see any equivalence other than the unsupported assertion that "Both sides do it". Maybe I access the wrong media - why not enlighten us and support your assertion.
LL, you really misconstrue. You obviously have access to the social media, at least Substack. Explore it and BlueSky.
You'll notice numerous calls for Trump and his administration to be sent to El Salvador etc especially in the comments.
Actually I dont. I have a sub on TPM and that's it. I dont do Substack or BlueSky. Shouldn't make assumptions like that about others in place of defending your position.
I also wouldn't equate comments made by private citizens on social media with public statements made by publicly elected officials to say "Both sides do it" - apples and oranges - but If that is your answer, then I guess you have answered the question. Thank you for taking the time.
No problem. Your subscription to TPM Is not via Substack?? How then are we conversing now? I don't need or bother to defend my positions -others may disagree or agree as they like and that's the joy and freedom of Substack and Bluesky, the last bastions of liberal/progressive thought in social media. I love this place and I hope you find a happy home. I also note you have more Substack presence than you mentioned- your own newsletter recently started? Build it up more and I may subscribe. Nice conversation.
As much as we want Kilmar Abrego Garcia freed, don't forget there are 260+ others jailed in El Salvador without due process. The abduction of people kidnapped off the street and imprisoned in a foreign land means the end of rights guaranteed since 1215 (i.e., the Magna Carta) and the 4th, 8th and 14th Amendments in our Constitution. The writ of habeas corpus, which allows individuals to challenge the legality of their detention, has a long history tied to the Magna Carta. The 4th Amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizures, while the 14th Due Process Clause ensures a person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. As if those violations of the Constitution were not enough, the cruel and unusual punishment clause of the 8th Amendment prohibits such action inflicted by the government This amendment aims to protect individuals like Kilmar Garcia--and all other residents of the US, to be protected by the Constitution, from punishment that is excessively harsh or inhumane. Trump has destroyed the Constitution and the Magna Carta in 84 days, with the help of cowed, cowardlyRepublicans in Congress and the SCOTUS. Shades of Nazi Germany 1930s! But we are NOT Germany of the period 1933-1845. We know history. Fight back, demonstrate, protest with signs or just stand in solidarity, write letters to the editor or internet columnists, call your congressperson or senator. Donate to Dem candidates, vote. Never give up. As Joyce Vance says: "We're in this together." Solidarity. Trump et al is not what America is about or its democracy!